Why Virtual DS4 performance mode is not 500hz?

[tij]

This discussion:

High Performance Mode - reWASD Forum

mention that reason for limiting Virtual DS4 polling rate to 250hz (4ms) is that real DS4 is limited to that. That is only true if real DS4 is connected via USB. I understand that Bluetooth connection of real DS4 is much faster (similar to how DualSense works).

This wiki states that measured input lag for DS4 is 2.8ms in wireless mode: ControllerualShock 4 - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

Thats lower than DualSense, which is around 5ms in wireless mode: ControllerualSense - PCGamingWiki PCGW - bugs, fixes, crashes, mods, guides and improvements for every PC game

So please put Virtal DS4 Performance mode to 500hz.

[strokel]

Hi. Thanks for the suggestion. We can't promise anything, but we'll discuss it with the team.

[DevX]

It was set to 250 Hz (same as on USB) due to the hardware problems in Windows with many dongles - it causes big lag and packet loss, i.e. works in fact even worse, especially if bluetooth is used for something else. We tried to make it higher but after lot of testing (including PS 4 console) we abandoned the idea and decided 250 Hz is the "sweet spot". 500 Hz or higher may be good only between real controller and console, as their hardware was optimized for this. But bluetooth stack and drivers in Windows are is just "not good enough" for this purpose and were not designed for such speeds.

[tij]

But this is Virtual PS4 controller ... meaning there is no actual PS4 controller involved (there can be ... and you can put up warning for those cases)

For example I use DualSense (which has no issue at high polling rates) ... but old games on PC dont support it

Old games usually support X-input ... and thats fine ... i can use Virtual Xbox One controller that gives me 500mhz polling rate

In some cases old games support DS4 ... in those case i prefer to use DS4 Virtual controller ... its nice when games says "press TRIANGLE" and my controller has TRIANGLE ... instead of "press Y" and I have to press TRIANGLE (in case I use Virtual Xbox One)

It is not a crucial ... but it makes life just a bit sweeter

In these cases - I dont see problem with Virtual PS4 controller having 500mhz polling rate.

[tij]

It was set to 250 Hz (same as on USB) due to the hardware problems in Windows with many dongles - it causes big lag and packet loss, i.e. works in fact even worse, especially if bluetooth is used for something else. We tried to make it higher but after lot of testing (including PS 4 console) we abandoned the idea and decided 250 Hz is the "sweet spot". 500 Hz or higher may be good only between real controller and console, as their hardware was optimized for this. But bluetooth stack and drivers in Windows are is just "not good enough" for this purpose and were not designed for such speeds.

From your description, the problem you having is with External Virtual Controller ... meaning rewasd is acting like real DS4 through PC bluetooth to connect to real PS4 console ... seems PC bluetooth have problem polling at 500Hz to imitate DS4 ... so you chose to poll at 250hz ... thats understandable

But thats a separate issue from what I am asking for ... which is polling rate on same PC where rewasd is ("Internal" Virtual Controller) ... that should be 500Hz ... DS4 is one of the fastest (if not THE fastest) controllers for PC when used with bluetooth ... polling at at least 800Hz on bluetooth ... and rewasd chops that by more than half when using Virtual DS4 on same computer (no External Virtual Controller)

I think ... you should let people set Virtual DS4 to 500Hz ... and when users do that - pop up warning that says "using High Performance setting for DS4 External Virtual Controller might cause stability issues"

[DevX]

>But thats a separate issue from what I am asking for ... which is polling rate on same PC where rewasd is ("Internal" Virtual Controller)

Internal virtual DS4 is always emulated as USB controller and it does not matter how your physical, devices are connected. It is because no game will recognize it otherwise.
But if you want lower latency - never use bluetooth at all, to begin with. You are trying to use inferior technology to achieve perfect results.
Windows implementation of bluetooth is "not so good", to say the least. It is "poor man's choice" and is ok only when you have no other options.
It heavily depends on Windows version, bluetooth dongle drivers and many other factors, which are our of your (and our) control.
This refers both to external DS4 emulated via bluetooth and your physical DS4. So we don't bother with overclocking it. Btw, Steam uses your physical DS4 also in 250 Hz mode.
If you need wireless connection many modern controllers already provide 1000 Hz polling rate via own USB dongle (eg. Flydigi Vader 3 Pro).
DS4 is in fact one of the worst controllers for PC and we emulate it only for compatibility reasons for some games and eg. for Remote Play.
For maximum virtual controller performance you need to emulate virtual Xbox 360 or Xbox One - they have no latency restrictions and you get output as fast as your PC is (currently it can be up to 500 Hz in high performance mode).
Also they have 16-bit stick resolution (unlike 8-bit on all Sony controllers) and allow you to make more precise movements if needed (depends on game of course).

[tij]

Sorry ... I am getting confused here

My setup ... DualSense Edge -> USB cable -> PC -> Virual DS4 (using reWASD) -> game on same PC

I understand that real DS4 on USB is 250hz ... I also understad that real DS4 on bluetooth is more than 500hz (theoretical ... but realistically it suck due to factors you listed)

But in my chain - there is nothing to screw up Virtual DS4 doing 500hz ... or am i missing something?

[1ncorrect]

Sorry ... I am getting confused here

My setup ... DualSense Edge -> USB cable -> PC -> Virual DS4 (using reWASD) -> game on same PC

I understand that real DS4 on USB is 250hz ... I also understad that real DS4 on bluetooth is more than 500hz (theoretical ... but realistically it suck due to factors you listed)

But in my chain - there is nothing to screw up Virtual DS4 doing 500hz ... or am i missing something?

As DevX pointed out earlier, 250hz is a technical limitation of our virtual DS4, which is made "by design". The reasons for this decision can be seen in the posts above.

[tij]

Maybe I put this in wrong section ... should have put it in [Suggestions] section ... I apologize for that

First of all - I completely understand that 250hz is technical limitation of reWASD Virtual DS4 and the reason behind that.

So my suggestion would be - can you change that to 500Hz? or add a separate "Wireless Virtual DS4" with 500Hz polling? As always, I do not mind if this is a paid option as I understand that doing this takes effort and time.

To be clear - this is not request for overclocking real controllers. This option is for latency of virtual controller only.

For limited games that support Sony controllers - it is nice when games prompt you in label of the controller ... for example the game tells "press TRIANGLE to open the door" ... so having Virtual DS4 was nice for me as I own DualSense and majority of games that support Sony controllers - only support DS4.

250Hz was not much of the issue on Virtual DS4 before. Sony controllers did 250Hz over USB. While Sony controllers do 800-1000Hz polling in bluetooth mode - as you mentioned before bluetooth is not consistent. So 250Hz on Virtual DS4 was reasonable when used with Sony controllers.

Now DualSense Edge connect at 1000Hz over USB (this is standard - not overclocked) ... now 500Hz on Virtual DS4 makes sense.

I know I can use DS4Windows to do this and that it has capable remapping capabilities ... but I prefer if all my controller needs are addressed in one software

I switched from Steam Input to reWASD some years ago for the way reWASD handled DualShock 3. And I have seen reWASD made native support for numerous third party controllers - making reWASD truly a one stop for all controller needs.

I appreciate you considering my suggestion and thank you for your outstanding software.

[strokel]

Unfortunately, we have nothing to add to our previous responses.

At this moment, it is technically not possible, and we cannot promise that it will be added in the future. Thank you for your understanding.

[tij]

Fair enough ... thanks for honest answer ... i might have to use DS4Windows for DS4 Virtual Controller in meantime

[DevX]

We could try to make virtual DS4 report rate 500Hz, but then it will not be standard DS4 controller anymore and it may cause compatibility issues with some games. Moreover, what games you think will need it and where 250Hz is not enough? What frames per second you have in these games?

[tij]

Thank you for considering this.

At my age ... i no longer play competitive games ... in fact, I play from couch on large OLED TV with my controllers ... and thats why I love reWASD - it allows me to remap everything I need to controller - so i dont have to touch KBM as it is a hassle to do from couch

TV is limited to 120Hz ... and I know - objectively, I do not need 1000Hz polling rate ... yet, I have gaming KBM that poll at over 1000Hz ... and now controller that do the same ... my GPU can push above 120fps

Why I want 500Hz? ... to subjectively have best gaming experience ... so I cannot blame my poor gaming performance on my gaming rig

Same reason - I am happy that Virtual Xbox in reWASD polls at 500Hz ... do i need it? - maybe not ... do i want it? - hell yeah

Hell ... if reWASD has option to do 1000Hz on its virtual controllers - I would use it in a blink of an eye ... and if particular game crash because of it - I just create a profile for that game with lower polling rate.

I know that a lot of games specify compatibility with DS4 in wired mode only - implying 250hz limit ... i tried DS4Windows on those that I own - and they seem to do fine with DS4 doing 1000Hz ... again - if particular game crash - I will just use 250hz mode that you already have

Ofcourse you should give pop-up warning when ppl set Virtual Controller to high polling rate

Again - thank you for considering this

PS. I was exploring DS4Windows ... they have come far since last time I used it ... but their remapping is still behind reWASD ... I found it impossible to map 3 simultaneous button press - you can do it, but it does not mute individual buttons - so you get quite a mess

PSS. in my opinion ... give people option to poll Virtual Controllers at any rate they want ... there are plenty of controllers now that can do good 1000Hz over USB or dongle ... just give them pop-up warning saying that if it does not work - they should lower it down