Suggestions for Gyroscope Activators (and other things)

[giallone1970]

Hello,
I really love reWASD and i purchased the full pack as soon as gyro support was added since, the only way of aim i use for FPS is gyroscope. I have a Steam controller, a Nacon Unlimited Revolution (i use it in PS4 mode) and a 8bitDO SN30 Pro+ (i use it in Switch mode).

Release 5.5, i think is a nice step ahead with support for steam controller and the new gyro sensitivity but, i think the software still miss some things to be on par (or even better) than steam input.
I try to sum up what i think is missing in order of priority. Ofcourse this is just my personal opinion

1. GYRO ACTIVATORS (All Controllers with a Gyro): Currently we have just "Gyro on/off", one click of button activates gyro, another click of same button disables it. Not really optimal and not what most people use, at least in my personal 2 years experience with gyro FPS and also watching many youtube videos of gyro users. What would be great is having activators like "as long as button is pressed = gyro on, release button = gyro off. This allows the basic fps/tps setup of, for example LEFT TRIGGER is Aim Down Sight so, every time i go into ADS, gyro is here. This activator is awesome for every controller with a gyro but, would also allow the classic steam controller right pad "tap" gyro activator that many use. Obviously, if this option is already included (but i don't think) forgive me but i wasn't able to find it.

2. JOYSTICK AS MOUSE (All Controllers with a Gyro): I mean an option that tries to give a more fluid behavior to the Sticks (similar to what we have in steam input). Currently we only have the options of mouse or sticks emulation that, we can set to gyroscope so, considering that stick emulation isn't really viable for most games, that leaves us with only mouse emulation and, considering the high number of games that don't allow for mixed inputs is a bit of a problem (unless we always go with full K/M bindings). In short, i think that an "emulation" that can mimic a mouse but, is seen by games like a stick move would be a great addition for the gyro on every controller but also would be great for the steam controller to set on the right pad to make it more relevant in games considering that the current "stick" binding we can have is not really useful.

3. FLICKSTICK (All controllers with a Gyro): I think you already know about this and would be great to have in reWASD but, for now i think would be better to have more options for the gyro and joystick emulation on various controllers.

4. REMAP EXTRA BACK BUTTONS (Only Nacon Revolution Unlimited): I have no idea if this is doable, i know that you already did for XBOX Elite but this is totally different hardware so i have no idea if is doable. Would be really awesome since this controller also is GREAT for steam/pc use.


Thank you in advance and sorry for the bad english and typos

[CriticalComposer]

1. It isn't entirely intuitive but to get the "hold to activate/reactive" gyro just bind the Enable/Disable Gyro to both the Start and Release Press.

2. Mouse-Like Joystick (MLJ) would be nice if reWASD could figure out how to easily implement a great out of the box experience but I don't see that happening since every dev house uses their own unique combination of response curves, acceleration, sensitivities, etc. While it can work well in some scenarios -- Apex Legends allows for raw joystick output which makes tweaking MLJ a breeze -- most games can only get ~70% close to feeling like a mouse and, in my experience, it's always better to use pure M+K bindings for those games that don't support mixed input. I'll deal with rigid movement any day over poor aiming.

3. Flick Stick might be supported in the future. I don't recall if it was here or on Twitter but they said they were looking into it.

4. Back buttons can only be remapped if they send unique identifiers to Windows. A vast majority of back buttons are handled in the controller and thus send whatever button they are bound to within their own hardware. There isn't any way for reWASD to see these as unique. The only reason why the Xbox Elite works is because they send unique button IDs to the Xbox software in Windows so reWASD can intercept these button calls.

[reWASDer]

giallone1970 Welcome to the community!

Just a few additions to the perfect reply above

reWASD allows you to use a kind of Mouse-Joystick trackpad. Once you map Right or Left stick, you need to open Advanced settings and check "Spring mode" option at the right. In this case, you will need to swipe, and you will move only while your finger is moving. With trackball mechanics Steam has, it is a bit different thing, so you may feel that our Spring mode is a bit slower, so please check Sensitivity and Response curve too.

We will implement Trackball setting in a future releases, no worries.

As for the back buttons of your Nacon, we do not see them as separate controls, yep. But we can with a little help from the vendors. Please contact the controller manufacturer, we will gladly cooperate to bring the full support to all the controllers.

[giallone1970]

Thank you for your answer CriticalComposer

1. I think i tried it but didn't worked really well...maybe i messed up so i will retry this evening, thank you for the tip !!

2. Yes, i know that every game is a different story (same happens with steam input too) but still, having the option would be better than having to use stick emulation on for example the steam controller. I normally go with K/M but, on many would be better to have some sort of alternative option.
For example, the latest CoD Modern Warfare, have different matchmaking if you use k/m or a controller and, even if with gyro aiming is much better, trust me, you don't want to go again ppl with full gaming k/m with a controller even if setup as K/M. I also say Halo MCC, i can surely go to full K/M bindings but, i'm currently playing it in controller mode (with Mouse Like Joystick gyro) and works really well.

3. Awesome News

4. Yes, to be honest i don't really know If in this Nacon Model the back buttons are handled differently. I only know that, would be really nice if the option could be added (hardware permitting ofcourse)

[reWASDer]

Please try Spring mode to see if it fits

[giallone1970]

giallone1970 Welcome to the community!

Just a few additions to the perfect reply above

reWASD allows you to use a kind of Mouse-Joystick trackpad. Once you map Right or Left stick, you need to open Advanced settings and check "Spring mode" option at the right. In this case, you will need to swipe, and you will move only while your finger is moving. With trackball mechanics Steam has, it is a bit different thing, so you may feel that our Spring mode is a bit slower, so please check Sensitivity and Response curve too.

We will implement Trackball setting in a future releases, no worries.

As for the back buttons of your Nacon, we do not see them as separate controls, yep. But we can with a little help from the vendors. Please contact the controller manufacturer, we will gladly cooperate to bring the full support to all the controllers.

Thank you!!
I really didn't know about the "spring mode" option. Will play with it a bit

I don't think that Nacon will answer me about such question but still will see what i can do.. thank you!

[CriticalComposer]

For example, the latest CoD Modern Warfare, have different matchmaking if you use k/m or a controller and, even if with gyro aiming is much better, trust me, you don't want to go again ppl with full gaming k/m with a controller even if setup as K/M.

As someone who consistently holds my own with gyro aiming in precision games like Quake and Counter-Strike, I'll tell you 100% that I'll take on a mouse aimer with my gyro aiming any day. Even with 20 years of mouse aim practice behind me my Aim Lab results show that I'm more faster and more accurate with gyro aiming after just 4 years of gyro use. I may not be pro tier but then again 99% of gamers aren't. But you could look up someone like SteamController Player on Youtube and see some amazing gyro aiming that's better than what a majority of mouse aimers could do. I got a little defensive there but I'm just a little tired of people looking down on gyro aiming as if there was anything intrinsically hindering it in the same ways that joysticks are. There is certainly an argument regarding movement range and friction (both in favor of mouse aim) but that gives mouse aim only a slight advantage. I doubt I'll ever advocate that gyro is better than mouse, but they are so close that personal skill matters a lot more than hardware differences.

[reWASDer]

Just wanted to say that we are impressed with your gyro skills and knowledge. Thanks again for your suggestions and help :satisfied:

[giallone1970]

As someone who consistently holds my own with gyro aiming in precision games like Quake and Counter-Strike, I'll tell you 100% that I'll take on a mouse aimer with my gyro aiming any day. Even with 20 years of mouse aim practice behind me my Aim Lab results show that I'm more faster and more accurate with gyro aiming after just 4 years of gyro use. I may not be pro tier but then again 99% of gamers aren't. But you could look up someone like SteamController Player on Youtube and see some amazing gyro aiming that's better than what a majority of mouse aimers could do. I got a little defensive there but I'm just a little tired of people looking down on gyro aiming as if there was anything intrinsically hindering it in the same ways that joysticks are. There is certainly an argument regarding movement range and friction (both in favor of mouse aim) but that gives mouse aim only a slight advantage. I doubt I'll ever advocate that gyro is better than mouse, but they are so close that personal skill matters a lot more than hardware differences.

My apologizes,
i probably used the wrong argument (cod matchmaking, etc). i didn't want to "attack" gyro doing the usual comparison with k/m bla bla. I started in January 2018 using the steam controller and now, i ONLY play using gyro aim. I have more than 1400 hours on Destiny2 using a full K/M setup for the steam controller, more than 500 hours in The division, etc... I really LOVE gyro and is the first thing i try to understand when i want to play a new game is if gyro aim will work well for me.
I nominated the CoD Matchmaking only thinking about the problems some people new to gyro could face and what they could think. Gyro experts like us, don't need "Joystick as mouse" or similar but those things could surely help more people in trying out the use of gyro. Most controller people is used to aim with a stick (and with aim assist), my tought was that, with a full controller setup maybe those people could have a better start in understanding and enjoying gyro aim? I started like this, with The division and setup with joystick as mouse (and the game aim assist). This helped me a lot at the start and then, when gyro become a second nature to me, i switched to mouse emulation and, i will never come back (game permitting).
You're totally right, gyro is so close to a mouse that, some of my controller friends, didn't belive how i could be so precise and fast with a controller in Destiny 2 (they tought i was joking on them and instead using k/m).
I really want gyro aim to become the standard for controllers in the near future (would be even better now lol).

[CriticalComposer]

You're good, man. I honestly forget that new users don't instantly become aiming gods and that crutches help in some cases. I typically hear about SC users and Splatoon players who seems to quickly understand how awesome gyro aiming is and just put in the work to get better. But I agree that that using Joystick as Mouse allows new users to experience gyro aiming with the help of aim assists and can greatly improve first impressions.

[giallone1970]

Yes,
It also permits "new users" to have relevant "on screen" controller button glyphs helping them checking out gyro aim without forcing them to create a full k/m configuration from the start of a new game.

back on track, i tried your suggestions and here are my toughts:

1. Yes, you were totally right, i was able to obtain "hold/release" to obtain gyro on/off using "Enable/Disable Gyro to both the Start and Release Press"..isn't intuitive as you said but works!!

2. I tried "spring mode" and the results are interesting, definitely can be used as "joystick as mouse". I don't see this option on the Gyro, for obvious reasons. Would be great to have something similar on the gyro, but this is mostly for new users and maybe some pesky game that have UI change problems/lag when switching to m/k and controlelr inputs on the fly.
On this subject i was thinking, since reWASD also allows "stick emulation for mouse", wouldn't be possible to make "gyro mouse" be seen by games as a stick move (or totally hidden maybe) so to avoid the annoying on screen UI input lag, button glyphs constant change, etc? This could also solve the eventual need for a Joystick as mouse option. I don't think is doable but i just ask in case

[reWASDer]

Hey there!

We are happy to know that you get used to our UI. Yep, it is not the same as Steam, but hope with a bit of time spent here, you will find all needed things.

"Spring mode" for a gyro (when the emulation stops when you stop rotating your controller) is Gyro mode (you can select it from main window, where you add mappings to the directions).

"Non-spring mode" for a gyro (when the emulation stops if you get your controller back to the deadzone) is Tilt mode.

In reWASD, you can add mouse or stick mappings to gyro, so it seems the answer is yes, the game will see a stick.

Here are all those ones:

[giallone1970]

Hello,
Yes, Gyro works very well for me when i map it to mouse and i use "yaw" in the global reWASD options. But, if i map it to "right stick" for example, it barely works, but i admit i didn't played a lot with the sensibility options since i normally set the gyro to mouse mapping. Would be mostly a "cherry on the cake" option to help new people setting up their controller to try out gyro without having to create a full K/M mapping or even worse trying to do an hybrid configuration where most games will just mess with onscreen glyphs (or worse). What i asked was if is possible to still map gyro to mouse but, masking/hiding "mouse" so the game thinks is a stick and doesn't try to change the onscreen button glyphs evey half second. Curerntly i'm doing the tests with "remnant: from the ashes" because is exactly that kind of game where mixed inputs are a mess (just do a controller full mapping with gyrop on mouse and you will see what i mean) but, there are really really lot of problematic games like this (or even worse) out there. Ofcourse, full k/m mappings will solve most of the problems but, this is mostly for advanced users. New players that "want to try out all those gyro things i see on the web" will just find it problematic/not worth if they have to tinker 2 hours for every single game they want to play just to create a full k/m configuration. At least, reWASD community has made a lot ready to use configurations

[reWASDer]

Yes, remapping Gyro to controller should be much better in the games that support a controller.
I hope you will find your perfect settings for this type of mapping

We will also try to re-check the game to see what happens with a virtual controller there.

[reWASDer]

Also, I would suggest you to check Tilt mode too, in some games it is a better option, because Tilt is actually a Stick.